Dr Regina Koepp: Hello there. I am Dr. Regina Koepp and this is The Caring for Aging Parents Show. I'm board certified clinical psychologist and I specialize with older adults and families. I help you manage the most complicated situations with your aging parents so that you have peace of mind knowing that you are doing everything you can to help your parents live their best lives without giving up your own life in the process. This is a very special episode today. I have the incredible honor of interviewing MJ Grant about her experiences with caring for her mom with dementia. Mary Jane "MJ" is a CODA that's a "Child of Deaf Adults". MJ was born to deaf parents and has been a member of the Maine deaf community since childhood. She currently provides sign language interpreting services to deaf communities in Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. MJ is also married, caring for aging parents and parenting four children ranging in age from 5 to 25. And today I get to share her caregiving journey with you.
Dr Regina Koepp: So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me and, um, our viewers about your life and your life as a person caring for aging parents and a person with a full spectrum of activities in your life. So thank you. It's just an incredible honor to be interviewing you. So thanks for making the time for this.
MJ Grant: Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you because I've been following you for months since we connected and it's been great. So I'm thrilled to be here.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh, wonderful. Well, so since you mentioned, since we connected... we connected because I saw your incredible "Dementia Can Be Beautiful" video, which you had on YouTube and then I saw somehow on Facebook and I grabbed it and said, "Oh, this has to be shared with the world." And so then I posted it and then I've been using it when I teach different groups that are caring for folks with dementia and there's not a dry eye in the house when I share the video. And so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you made that video and the significance of that video to you and your mom.
MJ Grant: I, um, well I guess, I mean, when I initially created the, prior to that, I was already starting to post a few things here and there on my Facebook account, to share about my mom and the experience of her being in a memory care facility because she is deaf, she has dementia. And at one point we did have to move her into a memory care assisted living facility. And she was experiencing isolation even though there were a lot of, you know, staff there and there were a lot of residents, she was just lonely. And because nobody signed, she didn't have a lot of visitors who were deaf coming to visit her. So she didn't have a ton of interaction with her peers. And I just started to feel every time I went to visit her, she would say, "you know, everybody's talking and I don't know... you know, just sort of left out" and it broke my heart. So I started posting videos to not only create awareness, the goal was to, you know, can somebody visit her, can somebody who uses sign language, visit my mom. And so months after that, we basically ran out of money because it's expensive and if you don't have a lot of money, you can't really afford to, you know, have somebody in a place like that, you know, if you want really good quality services. And so when we ran out of money, we had to move her back into my house. She had been living with me prior, so we moved her back into my home. And so she was reacclimating to living with us. And at this point, so when the video came out, it was in January (2019), she had moved in, uh, the end of December (2018). It was after Christmas. And she hadn't, she hadn't at that point, forgotten who I was that I can recall. Um, I don't remember her, you know, looking at me not being sure of who I was, but I remember that day specifically when we were driving, I was bringing my daughter to pick up her car that she was purchasing. And I decided my mother loves the beach and I, you know, I, I have this sort of drive to just expose her to everything she loved so much, you know, that she really didn't get to experience because of other things I can share with you later. Um, so I really wanted to bring her to the beach and she could, you know, feel that, that sort of healing energy that you, you'd get at the beach. And while we were driving there, she started talking about me as if I wasn't there. So she was saying my daughter, MJ and Louanne. And so I parked the car and I, and I had had the camera running because I started documenting quite a bit, um, at that point already. And I was finding a lot of, uh, I don't know, there was a lot of healing coming from just documenting and, and taking pictures. And, documenting a story for myself and sharing some of it. So I was already running the camera and, and I decided to ask her, you know, where MJ was to see what she would say. I figured she might say, "she's right- you're you're MJ", but she didn't. And so at that point, you know, that sort of started that whole conversation that you would see in the video. It was just such, it was such a sweet moment because when she discovered that I am M J and, and the, I mean, which she does all the time now is not uncommon for her to go, "Uh, oh! I'm so surprised", you know, everything is just such a surprise, but that moment, she just reached out and hugged me, "my baby", you know, so special and I never imagined it would get the attention it received. Never. I mean, when I posted it I thought, okay, my, my friends on Facebook are gonna see my sweet mom, you know, and in this sweet moment, but it went like "shwooo" (Dr. Regina Koepp: "As it should") Incredible. (Dr. Regina Koepp: "As it should, I mean...") I didn't understand it. At first, I didn't really understand why I thought, okay, is it because of, you know, the fact that she's deaf? Is it because we're using sign language? Is it because, what is it? And then about a month ago, I looked at it again and it's been now, I mean, it's been several months now and I, I think I realized why, you know, it's like, Oh, there's something really incredibly special about this moment that the world saw. And, um, I experienced it to be a little bit different than what the world experienced. But in that moment, about a month ago when I saw that, I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it now. Yeah.
Dr Regina Koepp: What, what stood out to you as the special or the tenderness…?
MJ Grant: The level of presence. Um, the level of presence and, and how I demonstrated, and it's hard to talk about it because it's sort of like, you know, it's saying something positive about myself, right? Which is... (Dr. Regina Koepp: "great!").. as a culture as a society, we don't often do. It's like MJ, you demonstrated being present with your mother and, and, and patient and kind and curious. And regardless of what path, you know, going on and, and having a little distance from the video and seeing it again, it's like, okay, I get this, I get it now. So, um, before the takeaway from me was, wow, I mean, just experiencing those, those sweet moments in life and just cherishing them. And you know, that's really special. And there's this whole other element of presence that was so incredibly powerful in that video.
Dr Regina Koepp: You know, one of the things that really stood out to me, along with the presence, is you had so much grace and your mom did too. I think the presence that you're talking about is that you were present with her and that she was matching that. And just the connection, even in the midst of not knowing was so beautiful. And the other thing that strikes me is that because I work a lot with people who are caring for folks with dementia is that, um, they called dementia the long goodbye. And so when there are moments like this where the person with dementia doesn't remember you, it can be so painful and it can be a layer of the grief process that gets like torn off. You know? It's just so raw and painful. And a lot of people talk with me about the, the grief when their, when their loved one doesn't recognize them and how just it's kind of like torture and that your experience with it, you were giving another view of what that could be like. And I wonder for you if you had that moment of pain and loss or because you seemed so in the moment.
MJ Grant: Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, in that moment what I experienced was joy and, and because my mother was so, I don't know, I didn't experience a sense of, of grief in that moment or a sense of loss. And I know a lot of people see that and think how did she do it? How did she sit there? How did she not cry? Because my mother was happy. I don't know. I think it's just that I've always wanted my mother to experience joy. And one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is because I don't think I've really talked publicly about it, is that my mother spent years of her life pretty isolated when she moved to Maine from Rhode Island and raised her family working in a factory that she did not belong in... My mother. She just, my mother is a ray of light and that light is something I, that that light was quite dim for many years because of depression, because of isolation, because of anxiety. And so to see the, the, the shedding of the veil and the light coming out and shining for me was incredibly powerful. And seeing my mom have joy, she retired from working in a factory for 25-30 years to go take care of her own mother who had Alzheimer's. So she moved to Rhode Island and she lived with her mom and she took care of her mom and she couldn't travel. She couldn't do the things that she had set out to do. You know, before retiring, she couldn't do that. She had to take care of her mom. And while she was caring for her mom, she started developing symptoms of dementia. So I had spent many years as a child just wanting her to have a sense of peace and not have to struggle. And then for her I thought when she retires she'll be happy. And then she had to retire to go take care of her own mom and she was isolated still. So. And then to develop symptoms while you're caring for your own mom and then your mom has to go into a nursing home because you can't care for her anymore because you have dementia.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh, the tragedy. The pattern and the tragedy. How old was your mom when she started to develop symptoms?
MJ Grant: Um, I found an email from my sister back in 2009 and, um, it said, don't forget to ask the doctor about her memory. I'm concerned about her memory. And so she must've been, it must've been 2008, 2009, you know, that time frame. And then we got her, um, assessed and you know, she definitely had vascular dementia at that point. And, uh, five, six years ago, five years ago, six, about six years ago, we had to move her back home to Maine. And, um, so she really didn't get to experience her, her life, the way she had envisioned. Because she would always say, "when I retire, I'll do this" and so ok, someday she's going to be happy.
MJ Grant: And um, yeah, she didn't, she didn't get that. But now she's so joyful and it's like, you know, it doesn't always have to match what you thought it was supposed to look like. And it, you know, joy can come from other places, you know, it doesn't have to come from traveling. It can be from even just that moment of presence. And so there are a lot of moments of presence that I share with her and I see joy and, you know, kind of through the lens of a little girl who just wanted her mom to be really happy, you know?
Dr Regina Koepp: What was your mom like when you were a little girl?
MJ Grant: My mom was, um, she was, she was a good mom. She was very dedicated to being with my sister and I, she also was a survivor. Um, you know, having worked in the factory, she was not happy there was, you know, she, she was, there were, my dad worked there too, so they had each other and maybe one other deaf person, but nobody really signed. So she felt isolated. So she would come home and I would sense depression, you know, and I would sense feeling anxious about things. Um, I don't think she ever felt embraced by the deaf community here in Maine because she didn't grow up here. She grew up in Rhode Island. So, um, I saw a mom who loved to make bunny cakes during Easter who loved to make chocolate chip cookies and would let my sister and I look, you know, (Dr. Regina Koepp "the batter"). And, and she was a mom who wanted everything to be fair for us. Um, she was a mom who genuinely, really, truly loved us. She had patience to the point of maybe being too passive, you know. And so she had these two kids who were sort of running a muck and taking control of everything. And she was just trying to manage that and uh, she's kind and very, um, just very loving. And her, her big thing was, you know, "it's okay", even though I know there was a storm going on inside of her, you know, and she would just try to bring it down again. Okay.
Dr. Regina Koepp: She was so soothing, it sounds like
MJ Grant: She was, yeah, she wasn't the mom who would go to your soccer games. She wasn't the mom who would go to your school play even though she actually, no, she did. And I think the reason why she didn't go to a lot of events is because there were not interpreters, so she was often just sitting, you know, so she would sometimes forget to pick us up at school. I mean, I think she was going through her own struggles with depression. She would forget, you know, and we'd come home and we'd be knocking on the door and it would be locked because, you know, she didn't leave it unlocked for us or things like that. And I look back and, and think that was in part because of her, her own sense of being overwhelmed. And she was incredibly kind, you know, there was not a bad, she didn't have anything. Um, she's just, she doesn't have a spiteful bone in her body. She doesn't have, uh, a hurtful bone in her body. She just wants goodness, that's what she wants.
Dr Regina Koepp: Wow. So, you know, so many things are running through my mind about what I want to ask you because you have so many similar qualities, you have. You know, you've witnessed your grandmother and now your mom and now you're caring for your mom and your mom cared for her mom and there's this generational pattern in your family and you were in line. There's that. And then there's a similarity there. And then there's this similarity in your kindness and in your presence. And, uh, it's just remarkable to me reflecting on that, all of these, um, while you get the generational pattern of caregiving, you also get the generational pattern of kindness and peace and love.
MJ Grant: I feel that that's what I witnessed with her taking care of her mother. She was kind, patient, gentle. That's what she is. She's gentle. And, um, I saw that for many, many years and, and, uh, somehow internalized a lot of that. Thank goodness. You know, because I don't think any of us set out, you know, thinking, "okay, I'm going to take care of my parents some day". We don't think that I thought I'd been a mother since I was 19 years old, going on 20. I thought, Okay. When my kids are older, I, you know, I'm going to live my life and do all of these things. I never thought I would be taking care of my parents, ever, you know, so, so there was a little bit of struggle there for me. And then when I started to really remember what, how she treated her own mom, I watched my aunts, you know, care for their mother as well. Okay. You can either resist this or you can embrace this, which one is going to make you feel better here?
Dr Regina Koepp: So how many years now have you been a caregiver?
MJ Grant: Um, she, we moved her back here. I started going to Rhode Island to help her out with her appointments around 2009 ish. And then we moved her back here. Uh, the same year I had my, my daughter who's now five, so in about 2014 so it's been about five years since I've really, you know, having to monitor and having to make sure that bills were paid. And you know, my sister and I really had a hands on kind of, uh, approach with her. Um, she did live by herself for about a year in an apartment when we first moved her back to Maine. But a lot of ...we had hired a woman who's deaf to come help out and things like that. So it's been a, you know, five or six years.
Dr Regina Koepp: And from independent living to assisted living to living with you?
MJ Grant: Yes. Independent living to meeting a man who she knew for many years. And so she developed this, this really nice, um, friendship relationship kind of, you know, dynamic moved in with him and I think he started to realize, okay, her, yeah, she's really progressing. And I realized that too. And I said, this is this, we need to take over. And that's when we moved her into my house initially. And she lived with us for about a year or so before she moved into the memory care, Assisted living facility. And then back with us again.
Dr Regina Koepp: How long has she lived with you this time?
MJ Grant: Since we moved her in December 28th. So I mean, we're going on a year soon in December.
Dr Regina Koepp: Is she still in contact with her friend? The man that she lived with?
MJ Grant: She doesn't remember at all. When she sees him, she, she looks at him and I think sometimes she, she knows she knows him, but for the most part she's totally forgot that dynamic. She doesn't remember living with him, none of it. And to be honest, I'm glad because I think it was really hard for her, for us to move her out of there. That was a really hard decision because I felt like I was ripping her away from something where she felt loved, loved, and cared for. And I was pulling her away from that.
Dr Regina Koepp: An independent life, with connection and yeah. Intimacy....So now you, um, it's been almost a year that she's lived with you. And so how did you and your husband make that decision?
MJ Grant: Well, we, at this point in our life, it's just we have to do what we have to do. You know, we've, we've done it. We did it once before. Um, and we knew that it was necessary and then, you know, something happened where we had to, we had to take his mom in to, and it's sort of like, just do what you gotta do and you try to make the best of it, you know, do the best you can because we're both, neither one of us are going to resist reality. We don't want to suffer. We don't want to be, you know, angry. We don't want to feel, you know, we want to live a good life, a happy life. So you just do what you have to do. That's sort of the motto in our house.
Dr Regina Koepp: Yeah. Well that is incredible because it's hard to transition from having, you know, living a pretty carefree life to living a life of a caregiver is really tough.
MJ Grant: Really tough because now, I mean he can't, we can't really go anywhere together unless we arrange for people to come to the house and then we have to arrange because his mother is living with us too and she has dementia. She's not deaf. My mother's deaf and needs access to communication. Right? So if we hire a woman, you know, or somebody who is deaf to come into the home, then we're dealing with how is his mother going to communicate this person? So we have to think about all of those things. So most often it's just me going somewhere, coming home and then he can go somewhere and come home and maybe we'll have a date night. Highly doubtful, you know, it's just not gonna happen.
Dr Regina Koepp: God. Yeah, because and then not only that, arranging companions or caregivers for your parent, for your moms, it's also for your kids because you have a five year old, we have a five year old and thank goodness for my dear friend Sarah Jane. She is a godsend and she has basically helped to raise our daughter. And so she's like the person who watched my daughter when I would go to work. So she's the person we would ask, you know, because she has a daughter and my daughter's good friends with her daughter, they're like, we don't have to worry about that part. She's, she's always there.
Dr Regina Koepp: You have a village!
MJ Grant: Yes, yes, absolutely.
Dr Regina Koepp: But you're really in the sandwich. I mean, you're smashed right in between aging parents and kids.
MJ Grant: And I think to myself, what's going to happen? I try not to project too much in the future, but what's going to happen when this is all done?
Dr Regina Koepp: Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean by this is all done, which part?
MJ Grant: When I'm no longer caring for parents, I mean, as it is, you know, we were helping to care for my dad by going to his home. He developed an illness and this was all happening at the same time. And then once he passed, it was like, Whoa. Space. What do you do with that space? I mean, of course there's lots of things, things that can drop into that space. But it was such a, um, Whoa, uh, incredible, uh, feeling to, to not have that anymore. And this has been such a huge part of my life now. You know, I wonder what it would be like. I mean, I don't know if I would experience that, that sort of crash and um, depression or, or, or if I would just bounce right back and say, this is, this is life and we keep going. I mean, now, especially since that video, my mom, you know, she's been highlighted so much, you know, that I feel like in some ways it's like she will leave behind a beautiful legacy, you know? And it will be really tough because it's been such a huge part of our lives. I do wonder what that's like for what that's like for other people and what that will be like for us as a family.
Dr Regina Koepp: I'm sure it will be all of it. I'm sure there will be days that are crash and burn and other days that are uh, the memory of her is joyful. I'm sure it will be all of it.
MJ Grant: That joyfulness that she brings into our home. Incredible, I mean every ah, every moment.
Dr Regina Koepp: Are there moments where she's not easy?
MJ Grant: The moments when she goes into the bathroom and we need to use the bathroom? Oh no, she's in the bathroom. The light. Yeah, like the outside and the light is broken on the ceiling and we've yet to replace that light bulb. So we have a light inside the bathroom. So the easy thing would be to fix the light bulb, right. To fix that light so we can flip it (and let her know), you know. But instead we don't fix that and we go- just go in the bathroom.
MJ Grant: The shower upstairs is not working and we're all like, NOOO! It's become a running joke in our house. NOOO!
Dr Regina Koepp: So, you hurry up and shower after she goes to bed!
MJ Grant: I get up, I get up at the crack of dawn and I'm like, in that shower, you know, we're all just like in the bathroom before she gets up. I mean the moments like that sort of funny, but no, she does not. She, she's at a really interesting stage in this, uh, you know, with her dementia and she's just happy all the time except racing.
Dr. Regina Koepp: So now, how do you talk with your kids about dementia? So you brought her to live with you when your daughter was four?
MJ Grant: Yes, four. Right. And she had already lived with us previous to that when my daughter was three, but now that my daughter's four, I mean I had taken her to go visit, you know, and um, so she knew that mammy had dementia, she knew that she forgot a lot, but we finally reached a point, we had to look at her and it just came to me one day and I don't know how, um, but I said to her, cause she was getting frustrated with my mother repeating the same questions. You know, where's mama? Where's mama? How old are you? What's your name? Who are you? You know? And, um, she would just look at my mother, like " I can't" you know, "stop" (Dr. Regina Koepp: "Stop! Stop"). Now she just looks at her like [tired, annoyed face], you know, and she's really frustrated, but I say to her, Alana, she's like Dory from Finding Nemo and, you know, I hadn't made the connection. Um, I know now that apparently that movie was purposefully, you know, I think it was purposefully created to create more awareness about dementia and Alzheimer's. Maybe. I mean like by casting Dory is that the character who always forgot, but I didn't realize that, you know, I've seen the movie, but I didn't realize, you know, that might've been some of the intent and maybe it wasn't. Maybe I just made that whole thing up. I don't know if…
Dr. Regina Koepp: I like it, I'll buy it.
MJ Grant: So in that moment I said to my daughter, she's like Dory. And then we just, so when in moments she would get frustrated with my mother, I would say, Dory, you know, she's like Dory, she can't help it. She can't, and it doesn't take down the level of frustration, but she started to understand it better. You know, and it's hard for her. Um, I think it's endearing in moments and in other moments it's hard. And she just wants mommy to herself. She'll say, she's recently started saying, "you like mammy better". My mother requires a certain different, a certain level of attention that might, she requires eye contact. She requires me to be in the same space with her when we're having a conversation. She's lost her vision in her right eye. So she requires a certain, you know, kind of positioning. So I have to be really focused when we're communicating. And when my daughter's saying, "mom, mom, mom, mom," and I'm trying to engage in a conversation and give my mom that moment of presence and I have to break, you know, eye contact, hold on a second and look at my daughter, who's going, "mom, mom, mom". She's sensing that, you know, struggle. Me being in the middle. And she just wants to pull me away from it and have her mommy to herself.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh yeah. Oh. And then you're constantly in the middle!
MJ Grant: I'm constantly in the middle. And I think, well, I'm the adult. I can handle this. I'm the adult. She's the child trying to figure out, "why can't I just have my mom to myself?" So I have to be really conscious and aware of taking time with my daughter without anybody around, anybody. And um, that's hard.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh yeah. You know, and this what you just shared, the moment you said, "well, I'm the adult. I have to find a way to be steady in this." It reminded me of you describing your mom. having this inner turmoil and still being soothing and then I think, and this is probably me reading way too much into it, but it's just...
MJ Grant: I don't think you're reading into it. I think that's exactly what it is. I mean, in those moments it's just like you just got to pony up MJ and you're just going to have to be the adult here because parts of me, I'm still that little girl, CODA- Child of Deaf Adults, in those moments, there are moments that I'm, that little girl CODA that little child of deaf adults is screaming, why can't the world embrace sign language? Why can't everybody just sign? Why am I here to even bridge communication between my kids and my mom? Why? You know... I mean screaming for the injustice, screaming for, you know, you know, the, the, the, the, the frame in which, you know, the world generally views, you know, um, people who are deaf and, and just screaming for everyone to just embrace each other and embrace communication and, and be accessible. You know, those are the things that come up for me in those moments because I truly have always been in the middle, you know, always calling, trying to be the bridge, you know, and even in my own family, in my own home with my own children because they don't really sign. And, uh, for number of reasons, for a number of reasons, because my mom was brought up during an era, you know, it was like, um, people who weren't deaf, you know, sort of had all the power in, in decision making about, you know, what kind of communication, you know, or language you would decide to, to, uh, expose your child to who was deaf. So should we use sign language is, should we speak, should we, you know, so that by and large, the majority community would say, you want to teach your kids to be like us. Right? So my mother grew up feeling subservience of um, just inferior to, you know, folks who are not deaf. And so as a result, I have my hearing children, she would speak to them and I would say, you don't have to speak to them, can sign and expose them. And she would say, no, they're hearing, I have to talk. That's sad to me. It's incredibly sad.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh yeah, and it's denying her!
MJ Grant: It's denying her to have a relationship that she could be developing with her grandchildren. It's denying my children that experience of, of being able to communicate freely with their grandmother and getting to know her and my father on a very deep level. Um, and it's just such a reflection of such a broken system and it makes me really sad. And so all that stuff comes up for me.
Dr Regina Koepp: Oh yeah. Well, it's not only broken, it's oppressive and it denies humanity to be fully engaged.
MJ Grant: Thank you. Thank you. Why are we not just embracing everybody as they are and you know, however they communicate, let's, let's, let's all be part of it. We're all in this together. And when I say that we are literally in this together. Why are we dividing? Why are we separating ourselves from other individuals? Why? You know, why not embrace it? And so, yeah, it's, yeah, I'm dealing, I deal with a lot of that kind of stuff.
Dr Regina Koepp: So you're bridging between your mom and your children, and you're also bridging between your mom and society because you've been interpreting for your mom and your parents for your majority of your life. Is that right?
MJ Grant: Well, I spent a lot of years as their interpreter. Yeah. Now it's different because I try to really make sure that their interpreters at their appointments, but I still aid in communication, you know, making sure that there's understanding and all of that. But yeah, I've been bridging my entire life, my entire life.
Dr Regina Koepp: Well, now you're bridging more, more than between hearing and deaf people. You're bridging life experience and from life to death and from illness to wellness. I mean just that you're caring for two mothers who have dementia and are working on your own wellness. I mean, you're bridging so many worlds. It's just such an important thing to share. So I really hope people follow you and find you and we'll make it easy for them by linking in the, in the show notes.
MJ Grant: Yeah.
Dr Regina Koepp: Well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It just is such a gift for me and such an honor for me and my listeners to get to meet you on a really personal and intimate level. I mean just your willingness to share some of the deepest experiences in life is just a beautiful thing. So thank you so much!
MJ Grant: Thank you. This has been truly an honor and I really appreciate the opportunity to share my story because I think it's just part of my, my journey right now, sharing is really important to me.
Dr Regina Koepp: Isn't MJ a remarkable woman. And bonus. The experience with MJ is not over. So today MJ talked about caring for her mom, but next week MJ will be talking about caring for her dad. At the end of his life. You don't want to miss it. So join us next week, the same time and same place for my next interview with MJ. As we wrap up, I wanted to share with you an important freebie, that's something free, I made for this episode. It's called Dementia 101: A Beginner's Guide to Dementia Disorders. In it, I describe what dementia is and isn't. I describe the phases of dementia and what to do if you're worried that your aging parent may have dementia. I'll link to it in my show notes, so take a moment to download it. It answers some of the most frequently asked questions I get about dementia, and don't forget to share this video with your friends who are caring for their aging parents because nobody should have to do this caregiving thing-alone. Lots of love to you and your family. MJ and I will see you next week. Bye for now.
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